The Naxxramas Feedback Thread!

Post anything you want about our completed Naxx raids here!


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I was pumped for the raid last night! It's been a long month without raiding. I expected us to get stuck on Heigan which was why I didn't even bother to look up tactics for Loatheb! Once again, you surpassed my expectations. It was sweet how tired most of you seemed afterwards – raiding can be hard work!

Anyway, here's a couple of questions for you all...

How did you find using Ventrilo for the first time?

Personally, I found it so helpful being able to chat on Ventrilo. Saying tactics is much faster and easier than typing them out, and it was nice to hear those Murlocs who had a (working) microphones. Did I sound all right? I guess I'll have to play with headphones on next time so you can hear me talking over the sound effects!

Did the looting seem fair?

After last night, I wonder why I ever wanted a loot system in the first place! Everybody was very mature and easy-going about the loot. For the next raid we might as well just roll on anything we need, and if somebody's already won something they needed, it's down to us as a whole to point that out and make them pass.

We will be our own loot council.

Ventrilo: I liked this! Will have to set up my own mike, because it was very handy hearing Derky say who he was going to heal on Loatheb in the 3-second window (example) .. wasn't intrusive, and people seemed to get their mikes up and working in no time too.

Looting: You don't need a loot system when you have more drops than there's people in the raid! (6 bosses = 12 drops). So I'm all for using the regular rolling interface on bosses we've already downed. On new/hard bosses it's handy to have ML to avoid people who've released and are running back (assuming there are casualties) getting locked out of the loot roll accidentally.

Ventrilo: Awesomeness. ^_^ I have lovely audio memories of me and Derky following each other into the depths of confusion and it's always nice to hear directions instead of having to watch the chat like a hawk. Although, I was having trouble hearing people during a couple of the bosses, such as the spider... all I could get was a word or two around ear-piercing shrieking. But that could be fixed with a little less game volume on my end.

Loot: Despite my tiredness making me fumble on the WG boss, I was amusedly annoyed by the fact that it was hard to get people to TAKE some loot. *laughs* I'm all for normal rolling on loot, as long as we keep on going with the lovely way we are. Just lemme know what you want me to do for the boss and I'll switch it up. The only thing I'm wary of is as people get tired and accidentally click on the wrong roll and yank a good loot from someone who needs it... that's pretty much the only reason I would be for sticking to ML, is accidents. Playing a bit of Devil's Advocate there, but yeah.

Paragraphs aside, I missed it.

Considering it was my first ever proper raiding experience I loved it. Was really pleased with how far we got and if I'm honest was up for doing even more than we did; despite my tiredness.

How did you find using Ventrilo for the first time?

Have been using Ventrilo and Teamspeak for a long time and was easy to set up and pretty useful for boss tactics alongside those videos you posted. Would have used my mic but I was using Teamspeak at the same time and it would have got a little confusing with me blabbering away all the time.

Did the looting seem fair?

Seemed like a good system to me. I don't mind either ML or the regular looting system; as long as accidents are avoided I'm sure there'd be no problems. But as you say, everyone there is very mature and I'm sure we could use the regular system with no problems.

Master Loot is fine. After the great Olinkov incident of 2008, it's worth keeping just because accidents happen when people are excited.

I was thinking more of making rules about passing if you've got an item already. I don't think we need to worry about it (for now). We're all mature enough to police ourselves and question anybody who keeps rolling at the expense of other people.

Re: Naxxramas - 13/12/08 - Fully Booked
by Mnemo Today at 22:39

WWS report.

http://wowwebstats.com/z3wbecbqt6sf1

I should probably mention that the WWS report contains a LOT of information.

You can look at individual boss-pulls. (Trash is grouped into a big pile though).
There are filters to view only some classes.
You can look at individual players.
You can see buffs, debuffs. And the times they received them during the raid/pull.

The primary reason for using WWS is to allow everyone access to a very detailed report of how the raid went (kind of like recount), allowing you to look at where you wasted time/where you can improve.

Anyway, enjoy.

http://wowwebstats.com/btv3oslqwk6ne

Dec 15th.

Forgot to start logging till halfways through the first drake fight at Sartharion.
Sartharion, Gluth, Thaddius (WTF?), Razuvious, Gothik and the Four Horsemen(people?).

Once again pretty pleased with how far we got. I'm pretty sure we could have done a load of damage to Sapphiron at the end there if we'd actually given it a proper go as well. Hah.

We did damn well! There was an amount of nerfage seen on the encounter difficulty, but hot damn they were the most difficult ones that Naxx has to offer these days. Sapphiron is just about healing through and grouping behind the iceblock. Kel'thuzad will be about overall control and hopefully the peak of difficulty. But we did really well yesterday, and DPS was off the chart. Keep on doing what you do!

The tanking was rock solid as usual, and DPS was godly - most of the zombies on Gluth died before they even wandered into my field of view, which was particularly impressive considering we didn't really have any AoEers!

On healing: before the raid I asked Zuz about the need to have a discussion among the healers about our tactics, as most of the time it's "heal the tank and whoever else has damage". This works but is quite crude and probably not the most effective use of our mana (and it's the sort of tactic that used to drive me up a wall back in the days I raided as a holy priest! ). For example, is it best to put a priest/druid/paladin on the tank that holds Rivendare? And which side should the priest/druid be on group healing on Gothik, undead or living?

A tree can be put in any group as we are only group-dependent for Tranquility, our big AoE heal every 4 minutes, and we are very mobile. I generally keep rolling lifeblooms on the tank(s) - or try to, they keep dropping for me! I Rejuvenate the self-harmers (ret pallies, shadow priests, warlocks), use Lifebloom or Nourish (my Flash Heal) to top up raid members who take a hit, and Wild Growth (AoE HoT) when there's splash damage. A tree is NOT good at quick/reactive healing or chained AoE healing - but we can learn where damage will land and HoT up preemptively. I have Swiftmend and NS+HT (both on a cooldown), and the new 1.5 second cast Nourish too, but I'm not specced to be mana-efficient with direct heals, and when I stop to cast something on someone my HoT stacks drop off the tanks! I'm not clued in on how Beacon works, nor am I in any way up to date with the priest's arsenal of spells - I'd love to hear your thoughts on what tasks of raidhealing your class/spec is really good at!

Paladin's -

1.5 sec cast FoL heals (for me) around 1.8k 2.5k Crit also casts HoT for 100% ( I think) of spell over 10 seconds. (Glyph)

HL 2.5 Second cast (reduced with Talents, one cast needed for talent to take effect reducing it to 2 seconds) heals for basic (8.5k for me) crit upto 14k. Also heals all party members close to the target for 10% of the damage (Glyph) I think its 10% anyway at work atm!

Holy Shock - Instance heal or attack for (me) 2.5 -3.5k standard with crits of up to 6k. Crits also give instant FoL cast or 1s cast of HS. This I used in a rotation on heavy damage fights to increase my HPS to 1600.

Bacon! <3 Cast on Target A, target A then recieves the same amount of healing cast on any target with in 40 yards. Useful for healing 2 groups at once or MT.

Situation 1 - 2 groups with in 40 yards of each other (99% of fights) one melee one caster. Bacon on tank A tank be in 10 yards from tank B. AoE Spell cast on the I heal myself with HL for 12K Crit. That 12k is then passed to the tank. Healing Melee for 1200 each and caster for 1200 each with in 10 yards of me and the tank. Healing a total of 26400 damage in 2.5 seconds.

Situation 2 - Tank and me alone, while raid fight else where (See Eye of Eternity or 4 Horsemen and others) I take damage, i heal myself, also heals tank at the same time.

The only down sites to our healing is the only HoT we have is a glyph and it heals for smeg all. Its not really viable to rely on it. Though its good practice to keep this up on a 5 cast rotation as it will allow an extra 5.2k mana regen over a 10 minute period (With current gear and other spells factored in)

So, in a jist.

We can't move and heal properly. Holy Shock has a long cool down (Long regarding healing, I can't remember exactly i think its 10 seconds or something) so healing on the move is limited to minor HoT and holy shock. Single target healing or 2 target healing we are the strongest at, we can also AoE heal melee during most fights effectively also.

But anything that requires heavy movement and being the only healer is not the best. Don't get me wrong i managed it last night with Enth on the horsement, but Enth has a long running understanding of how I heal and we worked together with out even speaking. Thats the difference between me being able to move and heal or not.

I'd like to get to use the Judgement healing spell more in melee damage based fights, but currently I am failing as my gear isnt good enough. That heals for 232 per hit by melee. Give that to a rogue and it will keep them alive for most fights solo. I am working on improving my Mp5 over the next week which will mean I can use this in every fight.

Ill expand more if needed, at the minute at work and I don't have derky in front of me.


D

Derky wrote:Bacon! <3 Cast on Target A, target A then recieves the same amount of healing cast on any target with in 40 yards. Useful for healing 2 groups at once or MT.

Sounds awesome! And it also means you could OT Zeliek (check the WWS stats to see how much damage he deals), freeing up that dps to work on Thane: Beacon Blameaux' tank (hunter's pet), heal yourself as you tank Zeliek (which heals that person too), and throw a heal/shock on the hunter as you run past on the switch? The question is whether a druid/priest can survive a shared meteor with the Rivendare tank..

Also explains why you're always keen to heal the kiters/OT - your beacon shines in that situation! Makes sense to me now. Look forward to hearing on the Judgement deal.

Some thoughts.

Gluth:
Lazyness from me aside, we need to get a second (and preferably third) person up and running with being able to kite the Chow.
I don't mind doing it, but we should never rely on any one person being able to make a specific fight/night.

I've been there, and while it might be a huge ego-boost to be that person. It sucks for the rest of the raidgroup.

DPS in general:
... why am I winning?
Gear. There is no hidden skill, there's nothing that makes me better than any of you, with the possible exception of gear!
I'm at the point where there are barely any upgrades left to get from Heroics (or crafting), and in some cases, the gear I have surpassed (current) 10-man content as well.
I expect and look forward to more competition in the future.
Bring it on!

And if you need help theorycrafting/figuring out why your damage is lower than you'd expect from your gear level - talk to someone! And use the WWS reports.
Remember, there is no room for low DPS - if you have a problem, talk to someone - we'll figure something out together
(though, to be honest, I can really only give relevant advice to Death Knights and Warriors (and some for Warlocks, I guess).

Just don't suffer in silence.
On the other side of the coin, be considerate to those who aren't doing so well yet. Some haven't raided much, others haven't gotten very good gear yet.

WWS reports:
It's easy to make them, and there is no mod involved. And there is no relogging required.
Ingame, you type (remember, if you allready have a combatlog, you may need to physically remove it, or WWS will complain! )
/combatlog
and make note of where the file reports it being saved.
Next visit www.wowwebstats.com, sign up for an account and login.
Click on "Client" in the top of the site, find the file... write a description and click host.

Should be all.

I'll try to remember to do it every raid I'm in, but it may be helpful for someone else to be able to do it as well.

Thaddius:
WTF!?

4HM:
Impressive, good job - I expected the fight to be much harder than that. Glad we were able to step up to the plate and smack them down squarely ^^


Let's try to do more than 2 wings on Thursday, so we have more time for Sapphiron and Kel'Thuzad
Bring potions and buff-food!


WTB healer for heroics :'(

I'm sorry to say but i can't find the WWS link of the 18th. I WANNA SEE INFO!!!!

So if u could plz tell me where it is or just link it in here i would be very happy.

xxx Mirium

Mirium wrote:I'm sorry to say but i can't find the WWS link of the 18th. I WANNA SEE INFO!!!!

So if u could plz tell me where it is or just link it in here i would be very happy.

xxx Mirium

Taqwa has the link, but I don't think he's posted it yet. Watch this space.

My thoughts:

Progress!

We're on track. We did clear 2 wings in one night, including the hardest wing. It's all downhill till Sapphiron now. Good job on that.

Language Problems?

Some of the wipes during the last raid were due to certain people not understanding tactics: tactics that were repeated over and over again. I know English is not everybody's first language, but if we simply can't understand each other, we're going to have silly wipes again and again.

This is a serious enough problem that I might need to look at replacing people who can't speak English as fluently as we need them to. It's scary and a bit harsh to kick someone who is nice and skilled... but communication is so important I can't think of an alternative right now.

Communication When Loot Drops:

Let's save Faehla the chore of having to ask people over and over if they want an item when it drops. If your class could use it but you don't want it, say “Pass”. If you're unsure if you want it, say “Wait” and if you do want it roll of course.

This should hopefully speed up looting and let us get on with the fun.

Healing Shortage!

Though we have plenty of healers, the last Saturday before Christmas is not a good time to go raiding for most of them!

We are going to need at least 1, possibly 2, healers for the upcoming raids. If you know someone who might be interested please ask them and let me know!

Sorry, forgot!

http://wowwebstats.com/y22e1is11cbjs

December 18 2008. Patchwerk, Grobb, Gluth, Thaddius, Anub'rekhan, Faerlina, Maexxna.

When I remember, I'll post something about the kiting.

http://wowwebstats.com/d4h2v4qpgqrbe

December 20.

Plague Quarter, Military Quarter. Sapphiron down.

Kel'thuzad first attempt.

Awesome raid last night and commendations to the newcomers incl. Dahlaine who specced resto for the night! I made a number of daft mistakes (highlight: healer getting caught in Sapphiron's Cleave, wtf?) which I'll put down to the jolly season, too much sugar and not enough coffee in my system.. *coughs*

Things I learned:

I can trust D and Dahl to handle their end of healing! No, seriously - from my point of view we had awesome (unspoken) coordination last night, and this was especially noticeable on Sapphiron. I just Rejuvenated the raid and decursed (with Kayte) and D and Dahl handled MT healing flawlessly. Now I don't feel so bad I didn't buy the Frost Resistance ring design..

Our DPS rock! Doing that 25-man Archavon lolrun really emphasised this point, though I feel I'm insulting our group by comparing us to them..

I need to bring healing pots for Loatheb... or start pestering Blizzard to give druids Binding Heal/Beacon of Light.. :p That fight sucks from my perspective - wish I could go dual spec and just pew pew on it.

Those DK Cavaliers (trash mobs) in the Military quarter have a Magic bone shield - noticed this during my floorwarming. I'll make a note about this in my healing notes in the Tactics section. Dahlaine, did you notice if it could be purged?

All in all a very fun raid, thanks for being such an awesome bunch! <3

Some feedback:

Sapphiron

1) The cleave is enormous, yes. But so is Sapphiron's Hitbox. There is no reason to stand right next to her. To make it better, it seemed to be linking.

Linking cleaves basically carry from one player to any other player within 5 yards. And then just keeps going.
But I might be wrong, Sapphiron might just have a 180 yard cone cleave.

2) Sapphiron's hitbox is ENORMOUS. You can stand ~20+ yards away and still melee her. This is important to remember for a couple of reasons: The airphase (don't melee), Blizzard (more room to navigate), Cleave (more room to stay out of it) and tailswipe (don't get hit!), notably.

3) ANY ATTACK on Sapphiron during the Deep Breath WILL mean you get hit by Deep Breath!
Even if you don't notice it, due to the hit box size, you might be meleeing. To make sure, deselect Sapphiron and you should be fine.

4) You can see how long time you have left till the Deep Breath hits by watching the big frost-ball drop from Sapphiron onto the floor.

Kel'Thuzad

1) I was wrong about the Banshees!
The reason the Banshees are slow - they MUST NOT REACH THE CAMP. They've got an AoE knockback.
Ranged must focus on killing these.
Leave the skeletons and Abominations to melee, unless there are no banshees in range.

2) A pet ran over and pulled an entire Wing. We can't afford that.

Other than that, I think we've got Phase 1 sorted.

Good job

Watch the videos for Kel'Thuzad, and he'll be dead monday.

Marveen wrote:Awesome raid last night and commendations to the newcomers incl. Dahlaine who specced resto for the night! I made a number of daft mistakes (highlight: healer getting caught in Sapphiron's Cleave, wtf?) which I'll put down to the jolly season, too much sugar and not enough coffee in my system.. *coughs*

Things I learned:

I can trust D and Dahl to handle their end of healing! No, seriously - from my point of view we had awesome (unspoken) coordination last night, and this was especially noticeable on Sapphiron. I just Rejuvenated the raid and decursed (with Kayte) and D and Dahl handled MT healing flawlessly. Now I don't feel so bad I didn't buy the Frost Resistance ring design..

Our DPS rock! Doing that 25-man Archavon lolrun really emphasised this point, though I feel I'm insulting our group by comparing us to them..

I need to bring healing pots for Loatheb... or start pestering Blizzard to give druids Binding Heal/Beacon of Light.. :p That fight sucks from my perspective - wish I could go dual spec and just pew pew on it.

Those DK Cavaliers (trash mobs) in the Military quarter have a Magic bone shield - noticed this during my floorwarming. I'll make a note about this in my healing notes in the Tactics section. Dahlaine, did you notice if it could be purged?

All in all a very fun raid, thanks for being such an awesome bunch! <3

It could, however I was either in the middle of healing and too busy to purge or the DPS knocked it down pretty quickly. But it would help if I purged them straight away. However I need to sort out my /focus as it's not working on xperl at the moment. Also I need to find an add on for Purge which will alert me of purgeable mobs. I think I had one a while ago and it's disappeared. I'm still very new to the whole healing experience. To be honest I'd never actually healed even a normal instance before you put a lot of trust in me yesterday =P. I need to pick up some extra add ons and hopefully tomorrow will be smoother.

Marveen wrote:Awesome raid last night and commendations to the newcomers incl. Dahlaine who specced resto for the night!

I can trust D and Dahl to handle their end of healing!

Seconded! Dahlaine, sweet job healing, I never would have known that it was your first run as healer. I think we're building up enough awesome healers to not have to worry. Between Zuzuna, Derky, (offspecs) Dahlaine, Mirium and Itz when she gets up there (Plan on her being in the first raid of the new year!! No lie this time.), we won't have to worry about lolhealers again. ^_^

Marveen wrote:Our DPS rock! Doing that 25-man Archavon lolrun really emphasised this point, though I feel I'm insulting our group by comparing us to them..

Seconded... again. I'd even third it if I were schizophrenic. I was lol/wtf-ing the whole time at their capabilities and reactions. I thought -our- dps was mediocre.. sheesh. Now I know better. AND I've tweaked my talent tree and my pet's as well, and have gems to place. So expect more out of Fae tomorrow!

Mnemo wrote:2) Sapphiron's hitbox is ENORMOUS. You can stand ~20+ yards away and still melee her. This is important to remember for a couple of reasons: The airphase (don't melee), Blizzard (more room to navigate), Cleave (more room to stay out of it) and tailswipe (don't get hit!), notably.

That beast is so huge (how huge IS she?!) that my pet repeatedly despawned trying to attack behind her. Damn invisible leash. Although, something I probably wasn't in the position to notice... DID she tailswipe at all? I didn't see anyone go flying... just wondering.

Mnemo wrote:3) ANY ATTACK on Sapphiron during the Deep Breath WILL mean you get hit by Deep Breath! Even if you don't notice it, due to the hit box size, you might be meleeing. To make sure, deselect Sapphiron and you should be fine.

This is true. However, a trick I was using to see if I WAS behind the ice block was to see if my shots went through at all. If they did, I needed to move. Granted, this is only a tactic useful for quick attacks, by ranged, but it helps to see if you have a toe (or a bear paw! ) in her sights. I don't think it was the attacks themselves that caused you to be attacked and die, but the fact that you COULD attack and be seen.

Something funny though... my pet always stayed attacking during air phases and never died... hmm.

Mnemo wrote:2) A pet ran over and pulled an entire Wing. We can't afford that.

Was it mine? I didn't even notice what he was doing, I was trying to see what was happening, trying to attack banshees, getting thrown around, ugh. It was a bit chaotic. Might need to banish him for that, but he IS half my dps. *mumble* I'd rather not if it can be avoided.

Faehla wrote:That beast is so huge (how huge IS she?!) that my pet repeatedly despawned trying to attack behind her. Damn invisible leash. Although, something I probably wasn't in the position to notice... DID she tailswipe at all? I didn't see anyone go flying... just wondering.

I remember once reading a WoWinsider article (aimed at casters who'd rerolled melee dps I think) that said "if in doubt stand behind a pet" for safe positioning on dragons and other cleaving/tailswiping bosses, as they automatically get into a safe position. I sometimes use this when I need to get close to heal someone on the other side of a big boss like this, love ol' Khertan! And yeah, I noticed she didn't get nuked by the frost breaths either!

Faehla wrote: Was it mine? I didn't even notice what he was doing, I was trying to see what was happening, trying to attack banshees, getting thrown around, ugh. It was a bit chaotic. Might need to banish him for that, but he IS half my dps. *mumble* I'd rather not if it can be avoided.

Yeah, think we need to split the raid into a ranged and melee group, and ask Khertan to Stay with the melee. The banshees do the knockback when they get near their "tank", so they need to be nuked from afar.

According to the wowwiki, we will get no more than 8 abominations, 8 banshees and 71 of the little bone guys before phase 2 starts. So there's no "need" to clear the alcoves initially, as they'll just respawn - unless we want to try the achievement "Just Can't Get Enough" that involves pulling and killing an extra 10 abominations!

Taqwa did mention finishing the adds at the start of phase 2 - I assume any left in the alcoves despawn and we just finish off any already rambling towards us?

Marveen wrote:According to the wowwiki, we will get no more than 8 abominations, 8 banshees and 71 of the little bone guys before phase 2 starts. So there's no "need" to clear the alcoves initially, as they'll just respawn - unless we want to try the achievement "Just Can't Get Enough" that involves pulling and killing an extra 10 abominations!

Taqwa did mention finishing the adds at the start of phase 2 - I assume any left in the alcoves despawn and we just finish off any already rambling towards us?

As far as I remember, either a) It's hard to kill the adds fast enough to be "clear" of adds when Phase 2 starts (counting your list), b) the last adds start bumrushing you pretty much the same time as Phase 2 begins.
But yes, any leftovers at that point despawns.

Either way, any adds needs to be killed BEFORE we attack Kel'Thuzad... while stopping frostbolts and not getting AoEd to hell by Mr. Lich