Ulduar Hardmode tactics.

Since the other thread is starting to get bogged down with the Hardmode babbling I'm doing, let's move hardmode discussions here.

First: I did some thinking on Hardmode priority.

Prioritities when looking at this:

1) Top priority is to unlock Algalon.
2) Second is to get loot, to make the hard modes easier to manage.

Keep in mind that this is a priority list, not a list forcing us to go this path.


After Yogg+4:


1. Hodir
2. Thorim
3. Freya+3 (Freya+1, Freya+2)
4. Mimiron (timer+new things)
(Algalon unlocks)
5. Algalon (One hour per week...)
6. Deconstructor(DPS race - break heart)
7. Yogg+1
8. FL+1
9. FL+2
10. FL+3
11. FL+4
12. Steelbreaker
13. Yogg+0
14. Vezax
15. Algalon hardmodes. (Herald of the Titans, if nothing else)

Some thoughts:

Runemaster Molgeim is the easiest way to get the Algalon quest-starter, so should be our first move.
I think Thorim should be fairly easy to do, once we figure out how to heal the increased damage.
Hodir will require some thinking on how to do ...

Deconstructor, we proved yesterday, is ready to be killed.

So. LET THE THEORYCRAFTING COMMENCE.

Edit:
= done
= NOT done.
= not done, but irrelevant, we've done it in a harder mode.

FL Matrix:
4th column yes is the target. Rest is just for book-keeping.

	+1	+2	+3	+4
Thorim
Freya
Hodir
Mimiron

Yogg Matrix:
= without aid of.
= with aid of.

	+3	+2	+1	+0
Thorim
Freya
Hodir
Mimiron

Freya Matrix:
Brightleaf (Sunlight elder)
Ironbranch (Roots elder)
Stonebark (Tank-splatter elder)

	+1	+2	+3
Brightleaf
Ironbranch
Stonebark

edit: did some changes to the prio order, removing the... not hardmodes (Freya+1/+2, Yogg+3/+2)
edit2: added freya table, removed Molgeim, updated prio-list with current kills.
edit3: Updated with Hodir kill, changed wording of Freya+3(Freya+1, Freya+2)

XT-002

Ranged should group up around the healers in the middle (as opposed to 2 flanking camps) - there will be no more bombbots and we need people to huddle together for AoE healing.

Edit: -.-

Hodir hardmode has bombbots? .

I just replied to say that. Will post thoughts later.

Mnemo wrote:Some Deconstructor maths:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but:
Heart: 1.8m health.
Heart dur: 30 sec
Deconstructor hard mode health: 7.6m health
Enrage time left after heart: 6 min, 30 sec.

Hard mode DPS needed after heart is broken:
7.6m / (6.5min * 60) = ~20k DPS.

Breaking heart:
1.8m / (30 sec) = ~60k DPS
(Effectively 30k DPS as it takes double damage)

Conclusions: should be very do-able.
Especially if we can do it with only one proper tank.

I'll make another post on how the fight changes later.

Moving info from other thread.


So, basically:
30k Average DPS needed to break the heart (much more preferred).
20k Average DPS to kill the Deconstructor (assuming we enter Hardmode at 6min 30sec remaining - like we did thursday)

We've proven that we can do the Heartphase, but we need to keep looking into how to optimize our DPS during this phase till we can consistently kill the heart on the first try every week.
the 20k Raid DPS to kill him once we enter hardmode is well within out "norm", so should not be THAT hard, if we keep the pressure up.

So, what happens when you break Deconstructor's Heart?

1) No more heartphases.
2) No more adds (as they spawn during heart phases)
3) All current adds spawned must be dealt with.
4) Deconstructor's health is refilled and amount is increased to 7.6million.
5) Deconstructor deals more damage to the tank(?)
6) Tantrum will still happen. (Beating ground AOE)
7) Gravity Bombs will still happen.
Light Bombs will still happen - though they also spawn adds now.

I think what we came up with is that the adds needs to be offtanked.
Healing requirements is fairly high. (see Marv's posts for info on that though...)

I'd say we need to enter Hardmode at the latest... With atleast 5 minutes 16 seconds remaining on the timer.
Time = Damage / DPS -> 316s = 7.6m / 24k DPS

Less time than that remaining, we will have a hard time managing.

Conclusion:
We've got the DPS.
Assuming we have the healing, this should be possible.

Next.

Thorim.

I've heard he's easy, so should probably be high prio.

Not a lot of info here yet, but just stating what we know:

1) We can do the Gauntlet, most weeks we're waiting to engage, and we can improve (ie: we can enable hardmode)
2) Hardmode is about avoiding avoidable damage and outhealing the increased damage of Thorim.
3) We need to get better at avoiding the chain lightning.

The chain lightning:
There'll be a chain of electricity going from Thorim to a pylon on the wall. This means MOVE AWAY FROM THAT SIDE.
No one should take damage from that.

How many Flame Leviathan towers and Freya's chums do you need to leave up for it to be considered hard enough to unlock Algorelon? If you only need to leave up 1 for it to be considered a legitimate hard mode, we're rocking.

FL and XT will fall on the first night we try hard modes properly I reckon.

Has anybody killed Freya with 4 all 3 adds up yet anywhere?

XT-002

About healing - we needed 9k hps sustained after we downed the heart, which is the same level of healing as the Iron Council. There weren't any major spikes other than the 10-second tantrums (which deal over 100% damage to everyone), just need to find the most mana efficient way to keep the raid up for 5+ minutes.

XT-002 will deal 15% (1/6) more damage, and the Life Sparks have a pulse Nature aura that deals consistent low damage (800 per tick, HoTs can easily outheal 1-2 of these). This probably means they will have to be killed (OTed near the melee for AoE?), or their auras will stack and cause a wipe. Any idea how many hps they have? For the increased splash damage from the sparks, a totem or hunter aura would really help IF the dps can spare them.

Card:
The following is required to unlock Algalon:

1. Defeat Runemaster Molgeim OR Stelbreaker, last.
This begins the quest - first step being to check the Observatory.

Second step is to defeat all the Hardmode Keepers, to receive their Sigils:
1. Freya + 3 Elders. ie: "Knock, Knock, Knock on Wood."
2. Hodir within the time limit. ie: "I Could Say That This Cache Was Rare."
3. Thorim + Sif. ie: "Lose Your Illusion"
4. Mimiron + Button pushed. ie: "Firefighter"

After those 5 (assembly of iron -> 4 keepers), and no other hardmodes required, the holder of the key will be able to open the gate to Algalon.

Marv:
Life Sparks appear to have 50k Hp in 10-man (http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=34004), so it's probably not a good idea to have a DPS trying to nuke them down.
The question is, can we offtank them (ie: outrange the AoE), or do we need to put DPS on them down ASAP?
Looking at the spells, it looks like we can't outrange it, realistically.

... need to check how often they spawn.

Sparks spawn whenever somebody gets a light bomb on them, and can hit for 5-6k on plate. Best thing is probably to tank them near XT and assign 1 person to focus on killing them.

Gravity bombs will drop a void zone when the debuff wears off. Not a big issue.

It can be done with 1 tank if the tank taunts the sparks as soon as they appear. By the time they've got to the tank, they should be dead if ranged burn them down.

The hardest part is keeping the tank alive during tantrums, apparently.

Guess it's probably an idea to bump this up before the raid.

I guess we're doing FL + 1 (2?) towers this evening. I was wondering which one(s) we are leaving up.

Dahlaine wrote:Guess it's probably an idea to bump this up before the raid.

I guess we're doing FL + 1 (2?) towers this evening. I was wondering which one(s) we are leaving up.

We are trying FL + 1 tower and XT hard mode. Whether or not we also try Iron Council later in the week depends on how well things go.

I am currently unsure which tower to leave up. It's something I'm researching this afternoon.

After researching it, it seems Thorim's tower is the most doable. So we will have to blow up the other 3 at the start.

Thorim's tower = avoid the blue pillars of light.

Ended up getting asked to make up the numbers in a ten-man last night, which I went to with my (rather rusty) mage; all I can say is that some of the hard modes are surprisingly doable, picked up a Freya-tower Leviathan, hard XT, hard Thorim, and Steelbreaker-last Council, as well as a .. I think it was 8% wipe on Freya-3-trees.

If anything - other than the higher DPS requirement - hard XT is actually easier, given the relative lack of adds to deal with - nuke down one bonus add per lightbomb as opposed to a swathe of little buggers...

Well, as soon as FL overloads the bikes MUST stop everything else and just focus on picking up the passengers. Even using my defensive CDs, I die just 1-2 seconds after the FL comes back online.

Aye. As a biker - once I see the warning for system shut down I look up in to the sky and predict where the DPS team are going to drop. That was on both drops I was underneath them as they got to the ground. I picked up Ak as she jumped in first but was not able to get back to Taq in time to pick him up.

It's easy enough to look up for the raid icons in the sky though. There is a good 5-10 second period where you can look for where the DPS is going to drop. I would call out on Vent but there's only so much that "The DPS team is over here" can do. Next time round I will attempt to ping the map next time. And also it may be worth marking the bikers? So if one bike is lost they can see where the other one is?

And Marv: we do need 2 bikes unless one of the Demolishers is going to also go to a pick up point for the melee. And that is actually what you wrote, sorry

Love the diagram Marv <3. But I'm not usually a Demolisher driver

XT:

Bit of a disappointing hard mode really. As an Enhancement Shaman I despise the add phases on normal mode. Hard mode is a lot more fun <3.

Thorim:

I kept fucking up to the charge here until I realised the thing that the really obvious thing that indentifies the charge was something I thought was a different spell and was ignoring it. I blame Bal and/or Derky's boss mods.

Dahlaine wrote:As an Enhancement Shaman I despise the add phases on normal mode.

I think the only class that could possibly enjoy them would be a deep frost mage (since it's the sort of scenario where a fully improved Blizzard really shines - huge area of effect, massive slowing effect, and lots of damage, on mobs that won't aggro on you!). I know as a hunter it's generally rather annoying since it means running about and plonking frost traps to try and slow up the waves for long enough that I can actually land a Volley on them before they've toddled past...

They're alright as a boomkin - root the bombbots, hurricane the adds as they scuttle past and hope to blow up the bombbot in the process. Might even get the achievement for it!

Dahlaine wrote:

I kept fucking up to the charge here until I realised the thing that the really obvious thing that indentifies the charge was something I thought was a different spell and was ignoring it. I blame Bal and/or Derky's boss mods.

I've checked my mods, they are correct. Blame someone else!

Ill be turning them off for most encounters now anyway, we they are kinda useless apart from on Vaez

D

Derky wrote:

Dahlaine wrote:

I kept fucking up to the charge here until I realised the thing that the really obvious thing that indentifies the charge was something I thought was a different spell and was ignoring it. I blame Bal and/or Derky's boss mods.

I've checked my mods, they are correct. Blame someone else!

Ill be turning them off for most encounters now anyway, we they are kinda useless apart from on Vaez

D

Aye, was my fault I was reading them wrong. *Aims D blame at Bal*

First post updated.

Haven't quite followed the priority order, but, progress is progress!

FL + 2 on the books for next week?

Well, as I said, a cold, hard priority order might not mesh with what we're closest to obtaining, ie: deconstructor, thorim, etc.

Makes more sense to collect the easy loot from the ones we are close to getting, and then going by the priority and preference.

Oh, and I moved Molgeim from first to last, seeing as he's now only 10 achievement points

You have hard Vezax depressingly close to the bottom of the list!

I heard it was hard + nothing particular to gain from doing!

Show info on how he's doable, and I'm sure we'll do him soon!

But main focus should definately be on Hodir, Freya and Mimiron at this point.

Vezax

I found myself with a lot of mana at the end of the fight last night and that's after using no vapours, so decided to push it to the end (still had a Dark Rune in case of emergency). However, Gimi died just before the kill so that's nothing to brag about... Although to be fair I think that was more due to me getting the healer swap calls confused at the end and putting both Zuzu and D out of healing at the same time.

To do the hardmode we will need to not use any of the vapours, which I think means having just 1-2 healers, who help dps Vezax down (using puddles) until the saronite vapours merge into the Animus. WoL is currently down so I can't see exactly how many Saronite Vapors we used but I think it was 4, or half of the total? So getting the Animus to spawn should be very doable. Unless we run out of time next week we should try this with just two healers, and see how it goes.